Question: Have you ever received a good answer to why the church is “neutral” now when, as you claim, the prophets earlier where not neutral?
Answer: The question relates to the anonymous “Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Geography.” To understand the essay, we need to review the background and context.
Church leaders have always made a distinction between (i) the New York Cumorah, which is a fact taught since before Joseph even got the plates, and (ii) the location of other events, which we don’t know for sure.
The current version of the Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Geography blurs that distinction. Let’s look at the long-held position first, then assess what “neutrality” means.
Both of the long-held positions make sense. Joseph and Oliver personally visited Mormon’s depository of Nephite records inside the Hill Cumorah in New York. Moroni himself called the hill Cumorah, as we know from Lucy Mack Smith’s history and Parley P. Pratt’s autobiography.
Oliver Cowdery memorialized this fact in Letter VII. You can read that in the Joseph Smith Papers here:
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90
Recall that at the time, Oliver was the Assistant President of the Church. Joseph Smith, President, and Sidney Rigdon, First Counselor, both approved Oliver’s letters and Frederick G. Williams, Second Counselor, copied them into Joseph’s own history as part of Joseph’s life story. These letters therefore originated with the First Presidency and have been reaffirmed by all members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve who have ever publicly addressed the issue, including members of the First Presidency speaking in General Conference.
As for other Book of Mormon locations in Lehi’s promised land, Church leaders have always said we don’t know for sure where they are. There are thousands of sites throughout North America that fit Book of Mormon timelines and geography, but it’s impossible to tell which specific ones line up with the named sites in the Book of Mormon.
One well-known example was explained by Joseph Smith during Zion’s Camp. Joseph referred to Illinois, Indiana and Ohio as the “plains of the Nephites,” alluding to Alma 52:20, 62:18, 19, and possibly Ether 13:28, 29 and 14:15, 16. But he did link any specific site to any specific passage in the text.
You can read this in the Joseph Smith Papers at the bottom of the page here:
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-4-june-1834/2
We saw in the first version of the Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Geography that the authors of the essay made some obvious mistakes. Soon after it was released I pointed some out and suggested some revisions, which I posted here.
The essay was quickly revised. The new version was posted without notice and without comment about the changes (which has happened with other Gospel Topics Essays as well). The revised version did correct some errors, but in some ways it made things worse.
And, the current version still avoids mentioning Cumorah. By implication, the essay lumps Cumorah in with the uncertainty about other sites. Consequently, it misleads members of the Church about what the prophets have taught abut the New York Cumorah.
I discussed the changes in this post:
http://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2019/02/great-news-revised-gospel-topics-essay.html
The authors of the anonymous essay squandered an opportunity to educate Church members about the issue, solely because they wanted to accommodate M2C.
Most, but not all, of the members of the committee who wrote the essay believe M2C, so they think the prophets were wrong about the New York Cumorah. The essay was submitted to the Brethren for approval, but the committee apparently refused to even offer for consideration a version of the essay that contained the teachings of the prophets about Cumorah.
This is standard organizational behavior. When employees want a particular outcome, they guide the boss by giving the boss only what they want him/her to consider. If the boss wants alternatives, the employees provide the worst alternatives they can think of so their preferred outcome appears to the boss as the best choice.
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The “neutrality” position makes sense regarding specifics about Book of Mormon geography other than Cumorah. As we saw above, there are thousands of sites that match up with the relative few sites named and described in the Book of Mormon. At present, it is impossible to choose among them to identify specific sites.
However, what does it mean to be “neutral” about the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah?
Are we supposed to be “neutral” about whether Oliver told the truth about the visit of John the Baptist (Letter I)?
Are we supposed to be “neutral” about whether Oliver told the truth about Moroni’s visit (Letter IV)?
Are we supposed to be “neutral” about whether Oliver told the truth about Moroni’s stone box (Letter VIII)?
Are we supposed to be “neutral” about whether Oliver told the truth about the translation of the plates (Letter I)?
You get the drift…
Certain LDS intellectuals have long argued that we actually should be “neutral” on two key points:
1. Whether Joseph even translated the Book of Mormon (they teach the long-discredited “peep stone” narrative); and
2. Whether the Hill Cumorah is really in New York (they teach that Cumorah is in southern Mexico and that all the prophets and apostles who taught the New York Cumorah actually misled the Church).
Advocating “neutrality” about the teachings of the prophets causes people to become confused and disturbed in their faith, as Joseph Fielding Smith warned long ago.
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The current version of the Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Geography is part of an effort to de-correlate the New York Cumorah as if it had never been taught. That was a key factor in the Saints book, Volume 1, which created a false historical narrative to accommodate M2C. We discussed that here, for example:
https://saintsreview.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-historians-explain-censorship-in.html
Does anyone think the de-correlation effort can succeed when anyone can read these teachings in the Joseph Smith papers, in General Conference reports, and in books such as Articles of Faith and A Marvelous Work and a Wonder?
Eventually, the Cumorah issue will have to be addressed.
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I’m confident that Church leaders will reaffirm the teachings of their predecessors. That seems inevitable because the New York Cumorah is so well established and also corroborated by relevant archaeology, anthropology, geology, geography, etc.
However, for decades now the intellectuals have been teachings that the prophets are wrong about Cumorah. They have persuaded many LDS to follow them instead of the prophets. Now Book of Mormon Central is spending millions of dollars to promote M2C on the Internet and around the world. They’ve even weaved it into the scriptures through ScripturePlus.
M2C is nonsensical to many Church members. Even those who don’t know what the prophets have taught about the New York Cumorah find M2C difficult to believe.
But thanks to the efforts of the M2C intellectuals, there are many Church members who believe M2C. They live within the M2C bubble. They don’t know any different, and they have no idea what the prophets have taught.
It seems that M2C will have to implode completely before the M2C hoax becomes apparent to those who live within the M2C bubble.
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*M2C is the “Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs” theory of Book of Mormon geography. M2C claims the prophets were wrong when they taught that Cumorah is in New York. Instead, M2C teaches that the hill in New York has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon, except that Moroni hauled the plates from Mesoamerica to New York so Joseph could find them.
M2C is a separate issue from where Book of Mormon events (other than Cumorah/Ramah) took place. People can believe the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah and still believe other Book of Mormon events took place in Central, South, or North America.
Source: About Central America
One thought on “"Neutrality" and the de-correlation of Cumorah”
Good morning! Matthew 24:24 contains an interesting and revealing prophesy for the Last Days!
He prophesied that even the very Elect will be deceived! This begs an answer to two or more questions:
1) Who on God’s green earth would be able to deceive the very Elect?
2). What false doctrines would deceive the very Elect?
To me, at least in part, the ONLY people who would be able to deceive the very Elect would be those who are loved, those who are trusted, those who are learned, but those who are not the true prophets of God! Furthermore, they would be teaching doctrines contrary to the teachings of the Lord’s true prophets but be crafty enough to make their doctrines sound reasonable by censoring and contorting the words of the true prophets of God!
In my humble opinion, the BYU scholars are the only people who meet all of the above criteria. To whom else would the very Elect lend an ear? In addition, these scholars have been the keepers and interpreters of our Church history for decades! To make matters worse, for the last 100 years, they have been digging in only one place in the Western Hemisphere trying to find Book of Mormon geography. They are now totally convinced that they are correct and are now willing to censor and repudiate prophets to support their theories! Until the Joseph Smith Papers were published in 2001, we had no way to know what Joseph, THE prophet of the Restoration, and the early prophets actually said. But now we have that advantage. Until 2001, the BYU scholars digging in Mesoamerica did not have to worry about the members knowing what Joseph said concerning anything! The Joseph Smith Papers were given to us by the Lord to enable us to know what the Lord told Joseph and Oliver! No longer do we have to rely on the interpretation of others i.e. the BYU scholars!
We now have ample evidence from the Joseph Smith Papers and JS History that Joseph knew “the remnants (the Lamanites) are the Indians that now inhabit this country.” The paragraph censored from the Wentworth Letter (written by Joseph in 1842, just two years prior to his being martryed) in our Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith Manual made it clear what Joseph knew! Those thinking Joseph was stating his opinion have either not read what Joseph said in the preface to the Wentworth Letter or they are ignoring it! Joseph stated it was “correct information” and should be printed “entire, ungarnished, and without misrepresentation.” Are those who disagree with the entire Wentworth Letter calling Joseph a liar? Sadly for us, the members of the Correlation Committee did not honor Joseph’s request when entering the Wentworth Letter in our Priesthood/RS Manuals, because they censored a whole paragraph—151 words—from the Wentworth Letter! Could it be because it did not fit their Meso Agenda? That is my opinion! Sadly for us, Letter VII, which disclosed without doubt that the Hill Cumorah was in New York, was hidden from our view until 2001 when the JS Papers were made available! It was last printed in 1899 by Joseph F. Smith in the Improvement Era magazine. I could go on and on! These are but two major censorships in our Church literature! I resent it! I am hurt by it! And I feel betrayed and oppressed—not by the prophets nor the Church, but by the BYU scholars! I used to trust our Church literature implicitly, but no longer! If I read anything pertaining to the location of Cumorah, Nephite geography, or Book of Mormon translation by any means other than the Urim and Thummum, I simply ignore their scholarly opinions! I will have to hear it coming from the mouth of a prophet of God, not just one or two apostles, before I will believe it!
Sadly, the BYU scholars have certainly been able to deceive many of the Elect! Thank you, Jonathan Martin Luther Neville, for your tireless efforts in revealing the doctrine which the Lord taught to Joseph! We are indeed indebted to you!
And as far as the translation of the Book of Mormon using the Urim and Thummum is concerned, did the ancient Nephite prophets not put the Urim and Thummum in the box with the plates because it was the ONLY means by which the plates could be translated? Is the Book of Mormon filled with lies or prophets opinions, as well? They did not put a stone in a hat in the box! They did as instructed and placed the ancient interpreters in the box with the plates—the instrument the Lord provided for the purpose of translation! Since I believe the Book of Mormon is scripture, this offers to me an open and shut case for the translation by the Urim and Thummum! Some argue that it does not matter how Joseph translated the Book of Mormon. That is true on the surface! But when Joseph, Oliver, the ancient Nephite prophets, and the Lord in D&C said it was translated by the Urim and Thummum —no mention of a stone in a hat—then isn’t saying it was transmitted using a stone in a hat a direct repudiation of the only valid witnesses of the translation process? Most importantly, aren’t they calling them liars? Instead, they are taking the word of apostates, liars, anti’s, and dissenters over Joseph, Oliver, the ancient Nephite prophets, and the Lord Himself! What a day we live in—even in the Church!
In these Last Days, many of the very Elect are being deceived by the philosophies of BYU scholars concerning the translation of the Book of Mormon, Book of Mormon geography, the location of Cumorah, and even Evolution! Haven’t we been warned since the beginning to listen to the prophets and not listen to the philosophies of men…even with their sophisticated sciences? Does anyone recall that dictate being rescinded by the Lord? I do not recall being told that I should listen to the philosophies of men over the prophets of God as long as they have science to back them up! But that is exactly what the scholars and intellectuals are saying! They are telling us not to listen to prophets more than 30 years ago because they did not have science! My goodness! If that be the case, the Lord certainly has a long list of prophets who are expired in more ways than one!! How in the world did the Lord manage to get man to the Last Days with so many ignorant prophets and invalid prophesies?
The problem is that the scholars have become false prophets teaching false doctrine, but so loved, trusted respected, and learned that they are able to deceive the very Elect—just as Matthew saw in our day! Makes one wonder how Matthew was able to see our day without science?
We are in the middle of a test given by the Lord! Will we listen to His prophets or will we listen to the philosophies of men? Each of us must make that critical decision! I cast my vote for the Lord’s prophets–ancient and modern!
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