Maps

X MAPIn my view, there are two categories of Book of Mormon maps:

  1. Those that show Cumorah in New York, and
  2. Those that do not.

I see this as a clear binary choice.

For me, any map that doesn’t put Cumorah in New York is not useful or even relevant. But I emphasize, that’s because I think knowing the real-world setting is important. If you don’t think it’s important–and again, I emphasize that’s a perfectly reasonable and faithful approach–then you can find value in non-New York maps.

To me, without that pin in the map and all that goes along with it (Letter VII, etc.), it makes no difference what you do with the geography. Whether you create an abstract map, or a map in Baja, Central America, Peru, Thailand, or anywhere else, every non-New York based map rejects what Oliver Cowdery wrote (and what Joseph endorsed).

But that’s just how I see it. It’s not a universal truth and it’s certainly not official or endorsed by anyone who matters.

At the risk of over-repetition, others have different opinions and I’m perfectly fine with that.

Seriously.

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I’ve always emphasized that the spiritual message of the Book of Mormon is, without question, the main purpose for the book. If you’re not drawing spiritual strength and insights from the scriptures and deepening your faith in God, you should work on that before you focus on historicity and geography.

That’s a given for me.

But that takes faith, and not everyone has faith. What do we do for people who don’t have faith?

“And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith” (D&C 88:118).

Except for punctuation, the same words are repeated in D&C 109:7. It is also interesting that the same admonition is extended to those who attend the temple. (D&C 109:14).

Those who have faith to accept the scriptures as the word of God have a spiritual gift, which is wonderful. But those who “have not faith” need to do some study to create a foundation for faith. That study may include issues of historicity and geography that often are an impediment to faith.

In our culture, people want visual references. In that sense, an abstract map can be helpful for people who want to understand the text because they accept the divine authenticity of the scriptures on faith. Such a map can help them focus on the teachings of the Book of Mormon without getting bogged down into confusing passages about geography and chronology.

But people who don’t have faith, or who are interested in the historicity and geography because of their faith, also are visually oriented. They want a map that makes sense in the real world, and also fits the descriptions in the text. That describes my interest and the purpose for this blog.

Consequently, to the extent I objected to abstract maps in general, I should have qualified my objection. For those who have faith and are not troubled by or interested in historicity and geography, abstract maps can be helpful tools to understand the text more easily. Such maps can be a useful introduction for those who are new to the Book of Mormon. I still think there is a serious problem of imprinting a particular geography–even an abstract one–but if the people involved accept the scripture on faith alone, they may never care about the real-world geography, so a mental abstract map is no problem.

But I don’t think many of those people are reading this blog anyway.

There are also many people who are attached to a particular geography and want to keep that idea in mind regardless of other ideas. And that’s fine with me, as well. I’m not asking you to change your mind. I’m not even asking you to read this blog, actually.

I’m not writing this blog for everyone; I write for those who, like me, think it matters where the Book of Mormon took place, and those who want to explore the evidence from Church history, the text, and the various sciences. My focus here is on real-world historicity and geography, following the evidence wherever it leads. I think it makes a big difference where the Book of Mormon took place, for the reasons I’ve documented in all these posts. Others don’t think it matters, and that’s fine.

Maps in Moroni’s America. (Continued Below)


Continued from above

I think the text describes the North American setting, with Cumorah in New York. I think this setting reconciles everything Joseph taught, as well as the statements by Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. It makes sense out of the promises and prophecies. It fits the archaeology, anthropology, geography, and geology.

That’s why, to me, an abstract map is useless.

But that’s just how I see it.

I emphasize, one more time, that I’m not being critical of those who prefer abstract or other maps. My criticisms are focused on factual and logical errors that I’ve come across as I’ve studied these issues. I don’t expect everyone, or even most people, to see things my way or to agree with me.

And certainly, if what you believe takes you into the Book of Mormon and brings you closer to God, don’t stop or change course just because of anything I write.

But if you are interested in the real-world setting (for some, this is because of your faith while for others it is because you don’t have faith), then I welcome you here and hope you find, as I have, greater meaning in the Book of Mormon because of its setting in Moroni’s America.

Jonathan Neville

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Our friends at Works of Joseph have available 140 maps on CD for just $9. You can download or print all of them.  www.worksofjoseph.com/store Above and below are some examples.
Final Edit 5x7 Nephite and Lamanite Lands

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Below is more detail about the above North American map of the Book of Mormon

  1. NARROW PASS: Land between Lake St. Clair and Lake Huron (St. Clair River), and/or Land between Lake St Clair and Lake Erie (Detroit River), and/or E-W pass between Lake Erie and Lake Ontario near Niagara Falls, and/or E-W pass south of Lake Erie and north of the Continental Divide along the Allegheny River near the Narrow Passage. A- Mormon 3:5 (Near Buffalo, NY) B- Alma 50:34. (Line Desolation near Lake Michigan and Scioto River)  C- Alma 52:9 (Line Bountiful near Lake Michigan)
  2. NARROW PASSAGE: Begins on the south side of Lake Erie at Irving NY, following the Cattaraugus Creek south through Zoar Valley to Cattaraugus, NY. Here the divide cuts through and so you continue at the source of Little Valley Creek ending at Salamanca, NY on the Allegheny River. All land south of the Allegheny is the land south. Irving, NY to Salamanca, NY is a day’s journey for a Nephite of 44 miles. Mormon 2:29
  3. NARROW NECK: Lake Michigan lower east side following Lake Michigan’s coast N-S between the St Lawrence Continental Divide and Lake Michigan. Alma 63:5
  4. NARROW NECK OF LAND: Lake Erie and Lake Ontario which are the seas that divide the land at Hamilton, OT and Buffalo, NY. Buffalo, NY is the “great city” mentioned in Ether 10:20. In Central America the Isthmus between the Gulf and Pacific is 140 miles and the “land divides the sea”, unlike what Ether says that the “sea divides the land, which is what Lake Erie does.
  5. NARROW STRIP OF WILDERNESS: Allegheny River, Ohio River, Mississippi River, and Missouri Rivers. This is the main east-west border between the Nephites and Lamanites from about Adam-Ondi-Ahman to Hill Cumorah. Alma 22:27 These rivers act as a fence with a gate or gap at the Small Neck of Land, which is why the land north and south were each nearly covered by water.
  6. SMALL NECK OF LAND: Allegheny, Susquehanna, and Genesee river sources or gaps (Triple Divide) Only 6 miles between each of these 3 river sources due to the 2 Continental Divides crossing at this point. This was an old Iroquois resting and protection point called the Forbidden Path. Alma 22:32
  7. LINE BETWEEN/LINE FORTIFIED: Journey for a Nephite from the “Great City” at Buffalo, NY in a line from Buffalo Creek, to the Cazenovia Creek, to Buttermilk Creek. Here the divide separates the creeks at the source of Great Valley Creek which flows to Kill Buck, NY on the Allegheny River. Any land south of the Allegheny is the land south. (66 miles or about a day and a half for a Nephite from Buffalo, NY to Kill Buck NY). A- Line Fortified Helaman 4:7 B- Line Between Alma 50:11
  8. LINE DESOLATION/BOUNTIFUL: From the source of the Scioto River in Ohio, draw a straight line to the tip of Lake Michigan near Michigan City, Indiana. The Scioto River source follows briefly the St. Lawrence Continental Divide which then continues north to Lake Michigan. That divide goes rapidly north by the Narrow Neck until it goes southward around the tip of Lake Michigan. 3 Nephi 3:23
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39 thoughts on “Maps

    1. For a long time, some people considered any evidence of ancient civilizations in the Americas to constitute evidence of the Book of Mormon. I’m actually fine with that, so long as we don’t repudiate what the prophets have taught about the New York Cumorah.

        1. Lehi circumnavigated Africa until he caught the currents/winds to North America. Basically this is the same route as the Phoencia expedition took on its first voyage.

      1. The prophets have taught nothing about the hill called Cumorah near Palmyra, New York, only that it is the place where Moroni first showed the ancient record to Joseph Smith, and where he ultimately delivered it to the young prophet. The hill didn’t even have a name until Joseph Smith gave it the name Cumorah, which is fitting because it is where he received the ancient record he translated to the Book of Mormon. No prophet from that time until this has not taught anything else. And certainly NOT that this is the ancient land of the Nephites.

        1. Joseph Smith himself said the Midwestern states (Ohio, Indiana and Illinois) were the plains of the Nephites. He identified Hopwell burials as Nephite and Adena burials as Jaredite. People can believe whatever they want, but on this website we don’t censor information, unlike Book of Mormon Central and the rest of the M2C citation cartel.

          1. Sadly, people are willing to believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, but they won’t believe anything else he says, even when he states that it was revelation. The coming about of the BoM is not crazy, but Joseph Smith referring to the U.S. being Nephite and Lamanite land is – how does this thinking make sense? Why do people this? I used to be one of those people, and feel guilty now that I did not believe the other things Joseph Smith said.

      2. The prophets have taught nothing about the hill called Cumorah near Palmyra, New York, except that it was the location where Joseph Smith received the gold plates containing the ancient Book of Mormon record, which he translated. The hill didn’t even have a name before the publication of the Book of Mormon. Every prophet since that time has taught nothing more. And no prophet has ever taught that the New York Cumorah was the Nephite Cumorah in the Book of Mormon.

        1. So we assume that Mormon placed the plates in a stone box in a hill called Cumorah somewhere is Mexico/South America, and then the angel Moroni took and placed them in another stone box on a different hill (the one we now call Cumorah) so that Joseph Smith could get them? I think Moroni would have just handed them to Joseph Smith to make it more convenient. Or we think that the Lamanites chased Mormon ALL the way into what is now the very northern United States – through many other native American tribal lands (which were there!)? This does not make sense. People just assume that Lehi’s family landed in Mexico/South America because the BoM mentions great cities and there happen to be great cities south of the U.S. People forget there were great cities here in the U.S. too. That is fact, whether one believes in the BoM or not.

    2. The dates of most of the buildings in Mesoamerica date from 600 AD to 1300 AD which is long after the Bof M events ended. Hugh Nibley’s Sept 1972 article titled “Ancient Temples” explains w
      hy the USA not Mesoamerica favors events from the BofM. There is only one Hill Cumorah in NY in my opinion and those who believe the BofM happened in Mesoamerica claim there is a second Hill Cumorah in Mexico somewhere which I definitely don’t agree with.

    3. Those paintings show the opinions of people in the church! christ did apear to the mayans the incans etc nut thats not where christ apeared to the nephites!

      1. I agree that he probably appeared to the Mayans, but that they were not the Nephites. Read “He Walked the Americas” by L. Taylor Hansen (not LDS). Visits of a healer or prophet whose characteristics run strikingly parallel with those of Christ and his visitation to the Nephites. We assume that Christ visited only the Nephites because we have record of that. Lack of evidence does not mean it did not happen to others. The paintings in the church are definitely the opinions of the members, but that means nothing, quite honestly. The prophets have never said that the Nephites and Lamanites were in Centra/South America. But one prophet did say that they were in what is now the Unites States, and that was Joseph Smith. So we don’t call him crazy with how he obtained and translated the BoM, but we call him crazy on this?

        1. Good points. Not only did Joseph Smith say that, but the Lord identified the Native Americans in New York, Ohio, and Missouri as Lamanites in D&C 28, 30, and 32.

    4. They are 900 AD. Long after the Book of Mormon Times. Follow the Hopewell Mound Culture from 500 BC to 400 AD and the Adena Culture of 1500 BC to 300 BC in the Unites States of America.

      1. Exactly! And the Hopewell and Adena are not even their real tribal names. No one knows…but we do! 🙂

    5. The ruins in Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are the remains of ancient cities and ceremonial centers founded by different indigenous people at various times between 3500 BC (Tlapacoya) and 850 AD (La Quemada). There is no evidence whatsoever that these people were anything other than indigenous Americans with genetics that link them to Siberian East Asian ancestors.

    6. The ruins in Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are the remains of ancient abandoned cities and ceremonial centers founded by different indigenous people at various times between 3500 BC (Tlapacoya) and 850 AD (La Quemada). Some ancient cities were never abandoned, such as Kaminaljuyu (founded ca. 900 BC), which is now known as Guatemala City, or Cholula, Mexico (founded ca. 800 BC). There is no evidence whatsoever that these people were anything other than indigenous Americans that are genetically linked to Siberian East Asian ancestors. So far no evidence of settlements of Nephites or any other semitic people have been discovered anywhere in the Western Hemisphere.

      1. Douglass, you seem to be confused. All of this has been asked and answered if you look, but I’ll review it briefly.

        The Moroni’s America framework recognizes the Jaredites as the descendants of Jared, whose lineage died out in western New York. It recognizes that Jared and his brother brought “friends” with them and assumes they traversed Asia before crossing the Pacific and landing in northwestern North America, around what is now British Columbia. From there, they spread throughout North and South America. Naturally, we would expect their descendants to have a mixture of Asian DNA. Only the Jaredites (not the descendants of everyone who came on their barges) died in New York. Thus, we would expect to find ancient civilizations throughout North and South America with Asian DNA, just as science demonstrates.

        Moroni’s America explains that Lehi landed in North America and encountered indigenous hunter/gatherers, consistent with the archaeological record. The Nephites migrated from Tennessee to Illinois, where they met the people of Zarahemla. There are thousands of earthworks and mounds in these areas, dating to Book of Mormon times, but as you know, the people of Zarahemla had no written record, just like the moundbuilders did not. The elite Nephites did, but from Enos through Moroni, they feared the Lamanites would destroy even those records. Because the Hopewell left no permanent monuments or records (other than the repository of metal plates that Oliver Cowdery described in the hill in New York), there is no way to determine which mound site corresponds to which named Book of Mormon site.

    7. They didn’t know about the tons of evidence that has being brought to light, back then. They haven’t studied their Old Testament to understand that even if the timelines matched, they are still not keeping the Mosaic Law in Central and South America via those temple stairs. (Not ramps, per Mosaic Law!) The only ramps are in North America, predominantly in the MidWest and the East of the United States of America.

  1. How do your findings contrast with Wayne May’s? The maps he presents as the best guesses seem quite different than those shown here on your website. Knowing the whereabouts of the peoples and stories brings the Book of Mormon to life for me. I would love to know more.

    1. I agree with Wayne on our findings, but we have slightly different interpretations of the data, such as the route the Mulekites took to get to Iowa. I think it’s healthy to consider different perspectives. The main thing is, we both agree with the prophets that (i) Cumorah is in New York and (ii) we don’t know the specific locations of the other sites–yet.

  2. I first became interested in Book of Mormon archaeology when I had watched a video by a youtuber Shadversity, on the sword of Laban. In the video, he mentioned the varied accounts of the cave of records and that is what got me started. Long before watching this video when I was in seminary, my teacher showed the map of the Central BoM lands, and something about it didn’t feel right. While I personally believe the events that took place in the Book of Mormon happened in the Eastern portion of the United States, I also have to remember that the Lord wants us to rely upon him through faith and not archeological instances. When it comes time he will reveal everything, and for now, we should come together to look forward to new doctrine to come. It is through faith that all things shall be made known in due time. I am a young man at the age of 19 who is preparing for a full-time LDS mission waiting for his call to serve where ever he needs me.

    1. The Lord also said we may know the truth of ALL things. Having a strong witness of the Spirit to the truth of the Book of Mormon is essential. At the same time new physical evidence such as archaeology, breastplates in museums, science, and other things can add tremendously to our witness.

  3. I agree with you, it does matter WHERE the Book of Mormon took place. The problem is that most maps miss two critical verses from the Book of Mormon.

    2 Nephi 10
    20 And now, my beloved brethren, seeing that our merciful God has given us so great knowledge concerning these things, let us remember him, and lay aside our sins, an not hang down our heads, for we are not cast off; nevertheless, we have been driven out of the land of our inheritance; but we have been led to a better land, for the Lord has made the sea our path, AND WE ARE UPON AN ISLE OF THE SEA.

    They lived on an ISLAND.

    This verse also supports the island of the Book of Mormon people.

    Helaman 3
    8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, FROM THE SEA SOUTH TO THE SEA NORTH, FROM THE SEA WEST TO THE SEA EAST.

    And anyone that takes the time to research, will find that the island was not that big, certainly not the continents that most map makers place the Book of Mormon lands on.

    Just because there happens to be a hill called Cumorah in New York does not mean the Book of Mormon people lived there. There are numerous places that have the same name across the earth.

    From my research, this is the ONLY plausible map of the Book of Mormon.
    http://greatandmarvelouswork.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Book-of-Mormon-Map.jpg

    1. The main problem with this Island map is that it refutes statements made by the Prophet Joseph Smith and many other church leaders that the Hill Cumorah, where the final battle of the Nephites took place, is in New York. It’s important to fit all pieces of revelation and scripture together into one cohesive whole. And if you look at the Carbon Dating of the Hopewell culture, it’s amazing how perfectly it matches up with timeline of the rise and fall of the Nephite civilization. Lucky guess Joseph Smith? I think not.

  4. Got my copy of Moroni’s America Maps and you guys put an insane amount of work into them.To be honest with you I’m overwhelmed with the information. Thank you.

  5. This is a great site. I really appreciate how you represent your view, it’s so kind and non-contentious but engaging. Can’t wait to keep learning as I peruse the site. Thanks for all your hard work. 🙂

  6. I can see how Moroni’s battle on the east & west of Sidon happened through the maps … but I don’t know how the Lamanites crossed the river Sidon which is the Mississippi – it’s a WIDE river … did the Lamanites swim accross or did they have boats??

    1. It’s a great question that I addressed in detail in Moroni’s America. The Upper Mississippi River today is controlled by locks and dams, but anciently the river changed over the year from a massive body of water that caused extensive flooding to a relative trickle, depending on rainstorms. Plus, at lower levels there are big sand bars. We get just a taste of this variation when the river floods now. (The Ohio River periodically dried up; I’ve met an elderly woman from that area who said before they built the dams, you could walk across it if you didn’t mind the mud.)

    2. To answer that, we need to think of the river’s state before we put dams and locks in it. Before the Americans moved in, it was a natural river that would change with the seasons. If you read about what the river was like before Americans put in the dams and levees, there were parts of the river that were so shallow that a boat couldn’t use it; you had to walk across it.

  7. Rivers are not barriers, they are and always have been HIGHWAYS and major routes of travel. Stretching logic to claim that the Mississippi River is both the Sea South and the River Sidon? The Great Lakes are more logically barriers. How do the rivers and gently rolling hills in the westernmost region of New York could make a defensible narrow neck anywhere? I cannot pick out such a place. Jamestown? Where exactly in North America could have led Nephi to say that truly they seem to be on an isle of the sea? He had crossed lands and sailed the seas, so he ought to know. Where is the geomorphological, geochemical or archealogical evidence that water levels were much higher 2000 years ago? And on top of that, where did midwest or eastern North American cities drop into the seas or get covered by mountain landslides? We should be able to locate these.

    1. All of these questions have been asked and answered. Do some more reading. Start with Moroni’s America and Wayne May’s materials.

  8. History channel just had a special on earthquakes. Seismologists say that earthquakes happen where tectonic plates meet. They scratch their heads over the violent earthquakes that took place 200 years ago in New Madrid, MO. There are no tectonic plates near there. They were so violent in that they changed the course of the Mississippi River, formed hills, and something I find most interesting; huge plumes of dust shot up out of the ground like geysers. A lake was formed where there had not been one before, and vice versa. Does this remind you of anything? You should watch it. I think there is an explanation for thick darkness that was so thick a fire couldn’t be lit. Other things too.

  9. Thanks to all of you for your insight in matters relating to this Sacred Book called, “BOOK OF MORMON” and the spectacular work done by the Prophet Joseph Smith. I am a Ghanaian who loves reading this “Wonderful Heaven Given Gift.” even the Book of Mormon daily. It wasn’t by coincidence that as I was reading the book this morning and trying to find meaning to some verses in 2Nephi 10:8-21. “isle of the sea,” took me to this site. I don’t know much concerning the geographical locations of the Book of Mormon, and the evidence so far obtained by the Archeologist; what I know as evidence that the Book is true is how it has ‘changed’ my life and the life of many in my country, Ghana. I love the Book of Mormon and know it is divine writing from God true His Prophets ancient. The World can discredit it but those who are honest and true shall always praise their God that this book came at the right time in the history of humanity.

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